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Wu Tang / Rage Against The Machine Tour 1997
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AuthorTopic:  Wu Tang / Rage Against The Machine Tour 1997
GoldenEra32

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posted Saturday, April 14, 2018 1:23:34 AM    Click Here to See the Profile for GoldenEra32
Why did this tour implode?

Just the overall volatility of the Clan?

This is kind of a dream tour for me personally. Plus it probably drew in a lot of different fans, exposing them to somewhat disconnected acts.

Why didn't this pan out?

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jean pascal

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posted Saturday, April 14, 2018 1:33:04 AM    Click Here to See the Profile for jean pascal
where are these random jerkoffs with random screen anmes coming with random threads about menaingless shit?

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GoldenEra32

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posted Saturday, April 14, 2018 1:35:24 AM    Click Here to See the Profile for GoldenEra32
Great response.

Thanks for the input.

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dR.prOf

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posted Saturday, April 14, 2018 1:47:56 AM    Click Here to See the Profile for dR.prOf   Click Here to Email dR.prOf
It's called ughh dot com. The nice thing about a recognizable name is that it brings in new people from time to time. Mostly so you can scare them away jean pascal you oaf

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88

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posted Saturday, April 14, 2018 3:49:03 AM    Click Here to See the Profile for 88
This tour was a huge turning point for the wu, in a bad way.

The clan members, who were at the height of their individual and collective popularity, were annoyed and confused by rza's choice to have them tour with rage. They were a very different genre with a very different audience than the wu was used to, and I think a number of members felt it was either a waste of time or an outright stupid choice. Until this point, rza was trusted to make decisions and it had brought them success, but the decision to go on this tour caused skepticism toward his decision making abilities. Also, by this point, the members had ideas of their own about what decisions to make.

I think there was more to the story, but this was a big part of it.

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LiquidDo$e

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posted Saturday, April 14, 2018 11:49:30 AM    Click Here to See the Profile for LiquidDo$e
I bought tickets to see this show at Cal Expo in Sac...Wu-Tang pulled out and the Roots took their spot.

Dope show...The Roots did a better job then The Clan coulda done, but I was heart broken when I found out Wu wasn't gonna be there...

88...you were like 5 when this happened bro!

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Sp 90s

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posted Saturday, April 14, 2018 12:03:29 PM    Click Here to See the Profile for Sp 90s
Lol 88 that's just more proof the rest of the Wu has no business making any decisions and should just leave Rza in charge of everything.

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mic_data

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posted Saturday, April 14, 2018 12:29:34 PM    Click Here to See the Profile for mic_data
I remember reading an interview in the Source or something probably with Rza, but I think with Zack de la Rocha too, they all seemed to think it was a great pairing. Seems like it would've brought more punk people into rap, cuz Wu would be a good place for them to jump on, plus made them some doe. I never got into Rage tho, i like their lyrics and their music to some extent, but it's just la Rochas voice and style I'm not into.

Also, look at wu over the years, Ghost works with Doom and cartoon network, Meth gets a show on the cw, Rzas done a ton of stuff, no one else is doing anything that didn't get into different mainstream sectors of media. Gza can't even put out his new shit on time. I'm saying, they all could've benefited from a tour like that if they wanted to.

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88

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posted Saturday, April 14, 2018 1:40:59 PM    Click Here to See the Profile for 88
You're right, mic data. In hindsight, it would have been good for them.

But it didn't appear that way, back in 97. With the shiny suit Era rising in popularity, keeping their integrity and maintaining their rep as a "real"/serious/hard core rap group would have seemed important to the clan (after all, it's the year they famously lost best rap album to Diddy's no way out). The members saw this crossover appealing tour idea from rza as an attempt to sell out to commercialization. Which, in 1997, amidst the shiny suits, some of the wu members were not having.

And I was 8, thank you very much.

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GoldenEra32

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posted Saturday, April 14, 2018 1:50:19 PM    Click Here to See the Profile for GoldenEra32
Seems like Wu would have benefited and had a longer run of prominence if they just followed the lead of RZA.

I agree that it is an odd pairing, but at that time, it made sense. Widen the audience of the Wu. I guess at the time it could be viewed as a crossover attempt, but I don't consider it really selling out. Just broadening the appeal of the Wu.

RATM is the shit also. I appreciate what they were trying to say and the way they approached it. GZA had that song with Tom Morello which was ok.

Just a failed opportunity for the Wu. This was like the beginning of the end I think.

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Clockworx (Admin)

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posted Saturday, April 14, 2018 1:53:34 PM    Click Here to See the Profile for Clockworx
Rage was at their commercial peak in '97 with Evil Empire recently dropping the year before. Bulls On Parade was a mega hit. They were considered rock but de la Rocha had a rap element to the way he delivered his vocals. This wasn't Blink 182 they were pairing with. I'm surprised the other members were so opposed to it. I vaguely remember that tour being cancelled.

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GoldenEra32

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posted Saturday, April 14, 2018 2:02:47 PM    Click Here to See the Profile for GoldenEra32
De La Rocha is wild.

I know many hip hop heads that give him respect.

Last I heard he was freedom fighting in Bolivia or Nicaragua or some shit?

Those RATM albums are classic to me. I feel like there is a cross section of fans who were both into Wu and RATM at the time, as they were major acts during those years.

Wu seems to get in their own way over and over and over and over again. Mismanagement at its finest.

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Daddy Alfredo (Admin)

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posted Saturday, April 14, 2018 2:05:57 PM    Click Here to See the Profile for Daddy Alfredo
i disagree about different audience. same smelly wiggers loved both in the 90s

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Clockworx (Admin)

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posted Saturday, April 14, 2018 2:07:52 PM    Click Here to See the Profile for Clockworx
Heads were cutting school to cop Wu Forever in 1997. They were at their mainstream peak as well. Without a doubt the same fans were fucking with both groups at the time.

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88

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posted Saturday, April 14, 2018 2:11:22 PM    Click Here to See the Profile for 88
The problem at the end of the day for the wu was that rza was the manager as well as a group member. And that'll always eventually lead to disaster.

It's like my mens' basketball league. Whenever a player tries to also coach the team, it's good at first because the team had a leading voice, but it eventually falls apart, because the leader isn't a separate entity.

I mean, look at the Beatles. When Brian epstein was managing them, they were on top of the world. When epstein killed himself in 67, that's the year the band started falling apart. They couldn't manage themselves. Same thing with wu: they needed a person outside of the group to manage them, but they didn't and it broke them up.

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GoldenEra32

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posted Saturday, April 14, 2018 2:13:31 PM    Click Here to See the Profile for GoldenEra32
How's your mens basketball league going?

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Daddy Alfredo (Admin)

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posted Saturday, April 14, 2018 2:14:31 PM    Click Here to See the Profile for Daddy Alfredo
^^^they needed managing cuz half of em grew up in different places. out of all 9 members dont they come from like 4 different places in nyc?

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Daddy Alfredo (Admin)

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posted Saturday, April 14, 2018 2:19:22 PM    Click Here to See the Profile for Daddy Alfredo
correct me if im wrong but gza, rza, and odb from one spot, meth, rae and ghost from another and u god and cappadonna from 2 others.

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Daddy Alfredo (Admin)

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posted Saturday, April 14, 2018 2:20:04 PM    Click Here to See the Profile for Daddy Alfredo
forgot masta killa lol

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88

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posted Saturday, April 14, 2018 2:30:36 PM    Click Here to See the Profile for 88
Odb and masta killa are both from Brooklyn, rather than Odb being from where gza and rza are from.

Men's league just ended. Thinking of joining a different team. Mine is getting old and losing the competitive spirit. Just want to "have fun". It's lame and embarrassing lol.

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GoldenEra32

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posted Saturday, April 14, 2018 2:32:52 PM    Click Here to See the Profile for GoldenEra32
Yeah, it's all broken down in the Wu Manuel. It's too complicated to remember where they are all from for me. But you are right, they are from all over NYC.

To be honest though, most of them wouldn't be shit without RZA. They should have just played their roles better. And now U-God has the audacity to slander RZA in his book and the media. Know your place Huey.

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Daddy Alfredo (Admin)

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posted Saturday, April 14, 2018 2:35:23 PM    Click Here to See the Profile for Daddy Alfredo
meth woulda been an actor rae and gza woulda been 1 album forgotten 90s dudes without rza and u god, cappadonna and masta killa woulda been the 1990s versions of soundcloud rappers that nobody gives a shit about. ghostface is the only one bringing something unique outside street tales and kung fu shit.

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88

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posted Saturday, April 14, 2018 2:39:57 PM    Click Here to See the Profile for 88
Everything looks so simple and obvious in hindsight. They even made a song about it.

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GoldenEra32

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posted Saturday, April 14, 2018 2:40:04 PM    Click Here to See the Profile for GoldenEra32
Good for you 88. I'm old but I still hoop as much as I can. You can find me at the LA fitness yelling at 17 year olds.

Yeah, Words from the Genius has no replay value to me. Come do me... yikes.

The flood also destroyed Deck's chance at a classic album. At least that is how I rationalize his catalog.

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GoldenEra32

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posted Saturday, April 14, 2018 2:41:08 PM    Click Here to See the Profile for GoldenEra32
They made a song about their lack of business acumen?

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Daddy Alfredo (Admin)

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posted Saturday, April 14, 2018 2:55:08 PM    Click Here to See the Profile for Daddy Alfredo
i forgot deck to. lol 9 is alot of people

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Daddy Alfredo (Admin)

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posted Saturday, April 14, 2018 3:01:21 PM    Click Here to See the Profile for Daddy Alfredo
i feel like if ghost came out in say 2005 he woulda been way more embraced by a wider range of fans, especially way more hipsters. dude is the camron of wu tang. just outlandish character that always spits on crazy beats and some times funny beats. grimey but def a clown at the same time. ghost has appeal way more than the other 8.

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mic_data

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posted Saturday, April 14, 2018 7:44:46 PM    Click Here to See the Profile for mic_data
They had this hip hop store in my town that went under in a few months, but the dude there sold men and my friend Wu-Tang forever a week early for $20. We split it.

On the flip side, Best Buy wouldn't sell me cd because it has a parental advisory sticker. Strange times. Now a days kids listen to whatever they want on their phones all day.

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forensics

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posted Sunday, April 15, 2018 11:31:26 AM    Click Here to See the Profile for forensics
Clan was skeptical from the get

Members missed shows here and there but what really did them in was summerjam 97

Hot97 basically threatened wu with “no show? No radio promotion”. Considering wu/biggie/etc kinda made hot 97.. hot97.. they thought they needed the radio. They lost the tour to do the show...

When they got their they realized hot97 played them by giving them the final spot of the night i believe, which is the worst spot cuz the two pop acts were badboy n wu and wu went on in the “everyone walks to their whip to beat traffic” spot.

Wu spazzed on stage. Lost their tour and their radio station and the percieved “wu fell off” statement emerged.

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GoldenEra32

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posted Sunday, April 15, 2018 11:38:53 AM    Click Here to See the Profile for GoldenEra32
Good points.

Ghost yelling "Wu Tang... radio stop shitting on me" on Cobra Clutch echoes what you are saying about hot 97.

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Seme__one

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posted Sunday, April 15, 2018 2:47:03 PM    Click Here to See the Profile for Seme__one
tbh I don't think the RZA gets enough credit for his man management skills, prolly his greatest strength outside of his visonary production and plans

just getting the WU together, with all these characters, then keeping them and their ego's in check to release the shit they did, the first 5 LP's and 2 year run is nothing short of incredible... I can't think of any other producer/manager who could have done it

I don't think any manager could have done it

9 members in a group is a LOT, surprised he kept them together for as long as he did. Smaller groups with less releases broke up a lot quicker, NWA & P.E for example

the choice of the tour is fairly logical, RUN DMC pared rock with Hip Hop way back, P.E. tried it with Anthrax and thrash metal. they toured it was hard but it worked out for both

even a purely Hip Hop tour or show is normally impossible for the whole clan to attend so no surprise it was doomed to failure, WU shows notorious for it

I would imagine holding the egos in check after certain members blew up was challenging to say the least, and read Buddha Monks book for a glimpse on just how difficult it was to get one member, albeit prolly the craziest one to actually do ANY work or recording, on that note here is what Buddha had to say about that tour:

"You have to understand, RZA was doing something no one had tried before. To bring back together a nine member group after five of them had made it big as solos stars was unheard of. I mean, Mehtod Man had already won a grammy as a solo artist. But RZA got them back in the studio,back onto the set for the video shoot (well except Dirty, who ditched filming the Triumph video) and got the WU Tang clan back on tour. A Lot of the WU Tang members were pissed off because RZA had signed them up as co headliners with Rage Against The Machine, instead of teaming up with another Hip Hop group or just doing a WU Tang tour. Dirty didn't care. Dirty just wanted to tour. Money was money." he goes on to say " RZA's plan to tour was to expand WU Tangs fanbase even further. You had one of the biggest rock groups touring with the biggest rap group. This was an arena tour. The tour made the cover of Rolling Stone. Rage saw it as some kind of solidarity because at the time promoters were becoming less sure about backing Hip Hop tours. too much to worry about with security. The big insurance companies wouldn't even write policies for Hip Hop arena shows. And WU Tang had a bad reputation in particular. And some of it was deserved. WU Tang members did miss a lot of shows-it was rare to get all nine onstage on the same night, and Dirty was the worst for ditching shows."

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Seme__one

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posted Sunday, April 15, 2018 3:04:35 PM    Click Here to See the Profile for Seme__one
One of the reasons the tour failed was they got investigated for inciting a riot at the Deer Creek Amphitheater in Indianapolis after inviting the crowd to come on down after one song into the set. No one knows who said it if it did happen, which it prolly did. The whole crowd tried to get onstage...in Indianopolis thats apparently inciting a riot. Cops tried to arrest the WU but Rage smuggled them out. A few people got trampled in the crush.It started raising red flags on how wild WU shows could get. Most of the time WU shows had fights in the crowd, quite often encouraged from the stage " WU Tang did like to see n*ggas in the crowd go wild and start whoopin ass"

But main problem was how pissed the crowd got when members didn't show up for the shows. Nine egos too big to keep under control. At one show, no Dirty. He just stopped showing up. Next show, no Dirty and no Method. Next show no Dirty, no Method and no GZA....a few weeks into the tour WU completely missed two shows in a row, thats when they left the tour.

I don't think RZA was to blame. A few members felt too big a star to be told what to do, a few others felt they had been passed over and hadn't had enough shine. Most felt if Dirty couldn't be bothered to turn up then why should they. The timing of the tour was incidental, these problems had plagued the WU since day one and were just getting worse by this time, the success was just making it worse. Ironic as WU Tang Forever dropped about the time it was obvious it wouldn't be forever.

its so simple as no RZA no WU its strange to me he gets so much blame for the antics of the others, I don't think they could be manged any other way

The masks they wear on the cover of the debut LP was intentional to cover up the faces so no one would know which members of the WU couldn't be fucked to turn up for the photo shoot.

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Tadow

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posted Sunday, April 15, 2018 7:58:52 PM    Click Here to See the Profile for Tadow
what with this white people heavy metal shit on a hip hop board? what's next..posts about country and ska music?

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mic_data

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posted Sunday, April 15, 2018 8:37:36 PM    Click Here to See the Profile for mic_data
Actually, I was watching Shad's Hip Hop Evolution documentary on Netflix- there's a history of hip hop and punk. Rick Rubin (and Russell Simmons too I guess) brought in Beastie Boys as a kind of Punk/Hip Hop combo to reach a combination of audiences. They did the same thing with Public Enemy- when "Chucky" D didn't want to be just the next MC, they sat down with him and came up with something for PE basing it on what The Clash were doing in Europe.

Then even before any of that, both Afrika Bambaataa and Grandmaster Caz too I think, were heading off to downtown NYC to DJ for punk audiences. Punk was seen as the alternative to rock and Hip Hop alternative to disco, so everyone was on board sticking it to the industry. Bambaataa, Caz, and others were looking for a way to get their music out after Rappers Delight took over, which the originators didn't like, so that's where they started.

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GoldenEra32

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posted Sunday, April 15, 2018 10:39:55 PM    Click Here to See the Profile for GoldenEra32
I don't consider RATM white people music, but that's just me.

This thread has been more about Wu for the most part.

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Tadow

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posted Sunday, April 15, 2018 10:51:23 PM    Click Here to See the Profile for Tadow
I don't consider RATM white people music, but that's just me.

I don't consider baseball white people sports, but that's just because i'm not a racist.

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GoldenEra32

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posted Sunday, April 15, 2018 10:59:33 PM    Click Here to See the Profile for GoldenEra32
In my opinion, baseball is a white people sport. I don't think that makes me a racist though.

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Tadow

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posted Sunday, April 15, 2018 11:06:29 PM    Click Here to See the Profile for Tadow
i'm not here to discuss the topic or argue with you about your opinion. i just wanted to point out how ridiculous you sound about trivial shit

TTFN

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GoldenEra32

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posted Sunday, April 15, 2018 11:13:08 PM    Click Here to See the Profile for GoldenEra32
Thanks for your opinion. I had to google what that acronym meant. Now I can use that when I say goodbye to white people.

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Seme__one

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posted Monday, April 16, 2018 4:02:47 AM    Click Here to See the Profile for Seme__one


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dick_wolf

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posted Monday, April 16, 2018 5:54:54 AM    Click Here to See the Profile for dick_wolf
Then there's the whole Tom Morello Killah Priest thing that nobody touched on. It was the Topeka stop I think, I don't remember 100% but it was the whole RATM doing weird shit backstage and if they ever get called on it they play it off and say oh prank punked your punked or whatever. THat Tom Morello guy plays guitar and he was playing it with a drill like Eddie Van Halen backstage in between sound check and he had been drinking Absinthe which was pretty out of character before a show. He kept asking KP to "let me play you a song ... I want to play it for you alone." And KP played it cool for so long but Tom was having a hard time picking up on KPs vibe and boundaries were disrespected , personal space etc. KP eventually quote some scroll about two men laying together being "blast phemous" and the rage guys wouldn't,t let it go, instead of trying to get Tom to back off they joined in and eventually KP literally cried tears backstage and said he was homesick. Tom ended up stealing Method Mans chips and sandwich then passing out on the Wu bus nude while trying to wrap his dick around the neck of his guitar for half an hour. while people looked for him. Pop Da Brown Hornet was apparently on the bus and watched him struggle with it while Tom thought he was alone.

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GoldenEra32

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posted Monday, April 16, 2018 8:33:05 AM    Click Here to See the Profile for GoldenEra32
That is sad.

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88

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posted Monday, April 16, 2018 10:14:20 AM    Click Here to See the Profile for 88
good stories, seme and dw. that tom the guitarist story is wild, haha. i love it.

seme, what's that buddha monk book called?

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Seme__one

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posted Monday, April 16, 2018 2:46:22 PM    Click Here to See the Profile for Seme__one
ODB The Dirty Version its a good read check it out 88' Ol Dirty was quite the character

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88

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posted Monday, April 16, 2018 2:58:29 PM    Click Here to See the Profile for 88
my library has it. dope. just put it on hold.

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